There's no reason with people like you. You judge before you listen because you are always right, but never happy. Tsk tsp

May all the young people in your life be perfect, and never ever make a mistake, or need guidance.

America,

There's no reasoning with me because there's no reasoning with you.

Yes, I know that sounds like "nyah, nyah," but you likely have your mind already made up--the system failed him, he made a mistake, he's really a good boy, so on and so forth.

I read the article. He's on Candid Camera and he turned himself in. So, in your world, I guess it must be time for the excuses and why it's not his fault.

Parent,

My kids have made mistakes. I've made mistakes. And we'll all make more mistakes. However, in all cases, armed robbery, or anything remotely that violent, wasn't one of them.

Lordy, it's amazing how many people on this board are attempting to justify this kid's behavior, how it's someone else's fault (the ubiquitous "system") and how precious few people actually give a damn about the person or people staring down the barrel of that gun two Sunday nights ago.

lol no you made an assumption of my character based off of things that have never been stated rather than using what you have before you. I did not say anything about about who's side I am on. The only thing I decided was that your point of view is wrong and out of insecurity you got so defensive and desperate that you are now trying to speak on the behalf of the person you are debating with. Thats why I said, you are always right, but never happy, because you aren't arguing with me. You are arguing with yourself. I don't know this kid and I don't think he's innocent or guilty or a sweet kid or a brat. I just think he deserves a chance to go to trial and have a fair evaluation. Do you know the kid? I can admit I don't. Why are you making judgements? If the camera proved that he was guilty, why didn't you call the police and tell them who did it?

America,

Let's go over this again.

I made a judgement of your character because of your comment saying "There's no reason with people like you."

Just as you think I'm doing, it appears you already have your mind made up, at least about me.

I made the comments I did because of the article and the video. "(You) don't think he's innocent or guilty...?" So, you read an article which stated he turned himself in and an accompanying video and you came up with exactly no opinion--EITHER WAY? Besides asking if you have comprehension issues, I'll tell you that I DID come up with an opinion and stated as such. But, even though you couldn't come up with an opinion even after a video and the kid turning himself in, you did manage to come up with an opinion about me? Wow!

Why didn't I call the police? Because I wasn't there and I saw the article and video the same as you did. And, more than the camera, his turning himself in, joined by his mother, proved his guilt TO ME. Now, should he be cut a bit of a break because he turned himself in and IF, when he finally "lawyers up," cops a plea? OK. But he should still do time.

Phil,
Now we're getting somewhere. I understand what you are saying and I read all of that, but I have seen how these articles are written. Tee Smyth said this and judging by your response you may have overlooked it
"2. There was a warrant for his arrest. There's really only two choices: turn yourself in, or live on the lam. He chose the former."

If Tee Smyth is right, then the kid "turned himself in" but I won't know if the kid is saying he is guilty until the trial.

I was taught by a journalist that used to work for the record and all these other papers. I was taught that a lot of the time, they use some of the truth and bend a lot to sell. I'm not saying everything in the article is a lie or the truth, but maybe Tee smyth knows something about whats happening in the immediate setting. Understand when your life is on the line and you may got o jail for many years that not everything that happens between the police and the immediate family's involved can be discussed. However people want to tell you how these things look from the inside. I don't know if the kid is innocent or guilty and neither do you, we just see that the article says, yep thats that kid, BUT in a really convincing manner just a prosecutor would because that's where the information most likely comes from. Prosecutors job is to make you look guilty, because they have to put you in all the situations to get a response from the alleged criminal. Im neutral even after court, but I'll accept the results

America,

I THINK he's guilty based upon what I've read. If I were a judge, "think" wouldn't be good enough. I understand that, too, but this board is for people to state their opinions. Someone (the Teaneck Police School Resource Officer) recognized him from the video and there was apparently enough evidence and reasonable cause to execute a search warrant..

In addition, the kid was charged only AFTER he turned himself in, assuming the article has the time frame correct.

And, please re-read the article. Assuming the facts to be correct and in the proper order, Tee Smyth is wrong; it was a search warrant ("Detectives executed a search warrant at the teen's Teaneck home..."), not an arrest warrant. If, indeed, there was an arrest warrant, it's not mentioned.

Phil,
yes assuming the article is 100%, but I won't do that, until the trial or treat someone like shit until or even then I won't. My brother is in jail for something he did not do and there is a killer out there. The news made him look like shit and there are things in it that false but since it's in the paper no one will believe me. There has been another murder in englewood and I wonder if it is a result of them not catching the right person. Btw I'm not trying to give you a hard time, I just want people to see different perspectives.

America,

I fully understand you and I'm truly sorry for your brother and his predicament--and, by extension, that of you and your family. Though I guess I've been busting your chops here a bit, please accept my wishes and hopes that things work out positively for your brother.

I worked in the TV business (retired from CBS and worked on local and network news as well as in sports and some other stuff, all in the technical end). I will look you in the eye, as best I can, and tell you that there is no mainstream news outlet that's worth a plug nickel. They're more interested in being first than right and anything resembling investigative work is virtually non-existent. The written press is a bit better but they go from news cycle to news cycle and will publish stuff that'll sell papers. And, in all cases, the news outlets are pandering to the corporate agenda. For a good read, may I suggest Dan Rather's most recent--"Rather Outspoken." It's an eye-opener.

So, IF this stuff about this kid in Teaneck is true and in the correct chronological order, I THINK he should be severely punished. It should be tempered, but only after we get acceptable answers to the "whys." And we should have more feeling than what is being shown here for the people behind the counter that night.

Phil,
I know, I was informed of this in my training and I was disgusted. Especially to find a year later that it is happening to my brother. I appreciate the open mindedness and hope you never go through what I am experiencing with your children. I just hope my brother can get a job now that everyone thinks and probably will continue to think that. As for this kid, I hope him, his family, the victim's family, and the victim all have that day where they can move past this successfully and just be happy. Hopefully thats more than wishful thinking.

Tee,

You're amazed at the level of disregard that folks have for the justice system? I'm amazed at the level of disregard that the justice system has for us as there's probably a chance that some bleeding heart judge might say that this kid can be rehabilitated and maybe he's been misunderstood and that there are excuses for why he did what he did. In other words, it's not really his fault and the system did him wrong. Then he'll end up with a slap on the wrist and parole instead of getting what he should be getting for armed robbery--a trip to big boy prison so his cellmate can make a man out of him.

He had a choice. Rob the Dunkin' Donuts or do something productive. He chose the former. If he doesn't know the difference between right and wrong or has trouble distinguishing that, there's a place for people like him and I have no sympathy. And I've already judged him (yeah, I know, lest not ye be judged) because he's on Candid Camera and he turned himself in. Maybe give him some points for doing that--like a little less time.

And, maybe he goes to school somewhere else, but I doubt it. Close to 11 PM on Sunday night and he's robbing a Dunkin' Donuts? My guess is that he won't be getting up for school the next day.

...and with that, I leave the thread.

Good night.

Good choice. :)

The countries that have those laws have very little crimes.... go fish the INTERNET for stats..... I am not suggesting we implement those laws here but we should at least not say things without regard to reality.....

Diane,

"Hey Phily?" Why the condescending tone? State your case and please be above board with it.

Chopping off a hand for robbery? There's a start. If the best thing you can do with your hand is to stick a gun in it and point it someone's face and threaten to kill him while you take his money and, at the least, scare the life out of him, maybe, with the advances in microsurgery, that hand could be chopped off and given to someone who might actually do good with it. Or, absent of that, the criminal can learn to be a lefty.

In all fairness, before we resort to such a punishment, there has to be absolute certainty (99% isn't good enough) that the right person is in custody.

And then, it should be broadcast on TV. Remember the show "Scared Straight?" Here's the sequel.

Zizi, is that the result of JUST cutting off hands?

Phil,
How do you plan to do that when you are apart of the problem. How are you going to find out that this 100% the person when you are believing in a source that is not all that reliable. The ones doing the work are the police and detectives, this article is grabbing scraps of the truth and putting in exciting thrillers. You haven't even heard the guys voice once. The truth isn't one sided. For all you know he could be in the process of a setup. It happens and I am not saying this what is happening, but you sure are ignoring a big part of justice.

America,

I'm part of the problem? That's a good one.

If the kid is allowing himself to be set up, then he deserves everything he gets and he's even stupider than a person who commits armed robbery because he's allowing himself to be a stooge.

The Three Stooges was a comedy act. This is real life.

Phil,
It wouldn't be a setup if it never happened and if it happened without his consent then it's a setup. It's not a matter of being stupid, it just takes an accusation and we know how chitter chatter and spreading of lies go and blow up. It's evident here. The thing is we are talking about what we want to do to someone who has not gone to trial yet. Let's talk about what he deserves after we are sure he deserves something. Again maybe he did it maybe he did not. But you just sound really angry rather than effective

America,

If I'm angry, it's at people who think that everyone can be rehabilitated, that, in the area of right and wrong, wrong such as this shouldn't have dire consequences and that this kid is someone else's kid or grandkid or brother or whatever and we should feel for him. I saw precious little exhibiting any sympathy for the two people trying to make a living behind the counter. We should feel for them first.

And another thing... This kid is 16. If this wasn't his first armed robbery, he probably doesn't have too many under his belt (a pathetic thought). At 16, and when you're a rookie in the violent crime game, you're probably jumpy and nervous. And if the guy behind the counter doesn't react as quickly or in a manner that the kid is expecting, it wouldn't have taken much for the kid to pull the trigger. Those workers at DD were this far (holding hands a couple inches apart) from probably being murdered.

Is it possible the kid is a stooge and is taking the fall (a juvie charge) for an adult in return a good payday and the adult staying out of prison? Anything's possible. I don't live his life, so I can't say if he was desperate enough to take such an offer and move somewhere where he wouldn't be recognized. Obviously, I wouldn't. Be that as it may, he was recognized from the video, so the answer is very likely that he wasn't a stooge.

My guess is that he cops a plea. And, as the records may likely be sealed, we'll never know the end result.

Phil,
How do you determine who is not able to change? People do feel bad for the workers, and if anyone argued that the workers deserved to get what happened to them we would argue against it, but that is not the case. They aren't in a disposition with the law, everything from this point for them is an internal battle until the seek help.

America,

Sadly, there's no blueprint for who's able to be rehabilitated. And, for the most part, it's usually not something that's recognized until that person has done something drastic. At that point, people will get involved in hand-wringing and 20/20 hindsight and will start saying things like, "Oh, I knew he was f**ked up when he was eight years old and electrocuted the cat."

And, I agree with you, no one doesn't feel bad for the workers. My point, however, is that, though they didn't get hurt physically, they sure as hell did mentally. And you can counsel until the cows come home, but it won't stop the nightmares. Maybe they'll fade over time, but they'll never disappear and now they'll always be that much more defensive and/or wary. Look at many people who came back from the Middle East. Even if they were lucky and got out unscathed physically, there are probably precious few who carried a weapon who really got out of there unscathed. But many are too busy looking for the physical ailments rather than the mental. So, when the argument comes up at the kid's trial and his attorney says something like, "Oh, he didn't hurt anybody," while he asks for a lighter sentence, my answer is "Yes, he did."

What's the difference between some Taliban sticking a gun in your face and this kid? On one plane, the answer is nothing. A gun in your face is a gun in your face. On another, at least you know Afghanistan is in a war zone. The DD people were just working stiffs.

Phil,
I understand all of that and I don't think he should get a lighter sentence. I think for the sake of fairness (as far as fair goes now a days), he should do what people are termed to do, IF he did. End of the day, he's at the courts mercy, if the court takes mercy thats just them. I just want to do my part in terms of making things better for what has already occurred. I think that'll be my goal for our justice system.

Eve,

So was that man or woman behind the counter who, at the least, just had the bejeezus scared out of him and who will probably carry that scene around with him for the rest of his life.

What do you have to say about that?

And I really don't care about back-story as, no matter how rotten his life was, if he doesn't know the difference between right and wrong, certainly as it applies here (I mean, if he's not quite sure that armed robbery is wrong...), let's send him to a place where he can figure it out.

The people at dunkin donuts have to just stay on the right path that were on. Find counseling if they are broken or someone has to bring it to them. The person that did this maybe it is this kid maybe it is not. No question if it is him he should go to jail for it, but technically we'll never know because our system is twisted, BUT if they find its him we should conform to the only truth we know and send him to jail.

Thanks, doc. Someone around here who talks sense.

America,

I missed this one, sorry.

The DD employees just have to stay on the right path and maybe they should have some counseling if they are "broken?" If...it...were...only...that...easy.

Sure, talk to the counsellor. He'll make it all better. Short of shock treatment, these employees will never forget what happened to them. And all because of some 16 year-old who couldn't grasp a very simple case of right and wrong.

Phil,
What do you want the 16 year old to do? Undo what he did or do you want the Dunkin donuts employees to go rob someone and make everything better? Like you are asking dead end questions and then living them. They can only move forward man, so you think they will feel better executing the child? lol like what do you want to do about it? And do it! Again I'm not trying to be an ass, but you aren't providing solutions unless revenge is now the answer for everything. All I am saying is counseling is the next best thing to revenge in your world not mine. The kid can change, but youre afraid of what effort it may take because you feel hopeless about steps that it may take to see a brighter future. Of course jail is all we have now, but i dont plan to see it happening forever. I believe in a God.

yep yep!

Zizi,

(Mocking tone, sorry) Ooh, the system failed him. Blah, blah, BS.

At one point is this kid responsible for right and wrong? Did he know BEFORE he did what he did that what he was about to do was wrong? This has nothing to do with the "system." It's a matter of simple right and wrong. If he was such a tough guy, he should have robbed the place with his bare hands (also wrong). But the gun put the leverage on his side and, with it, he knew he'd likely get the results he wanted.

Bottom line: He turned himself in, so maybe he has a conscience under there somewhere. It's too bad it didn't kick in before he robbed DD that Sunday night.

And now it's time to pay.

I feel for the mom, too. Maybe she's a decent egg and, still, her son hung out with a bad crowd or, in order to earn their "respect" he had to show what a tough guy he was. And she was there when he son turned himself in.

I'd like to know where the FATHER is. Funny that no one here mentioned that, you included.

America,

I'm going to put words in your mouth.

So, that he merely threatened someone with a gun and didn't pull the trigger was OK?

"No question if it is him he should go to jail for it, but technically we'll never know because our system is twisted"

Technically? What's in the air you're breathing? Smile, he's on Candid Camera and he turned himself in. GUILTY! Now, might he get a dumbed down sentence? Likely. But we know exactly who he is, at least by face. And, if he gets tried as an adult, we'll get to know his name, too. But it doesn't really matter what his name is as he's another loser, at least at the moment, whose brain was disconnected or who thought respect came either at the end of a gun or a fist in another guy's face. Let him do his time and, hopefully, he'll learn the difference between right and wrong.

Well I'm glad you know you are putting words in my mouth, but that doesn't make it right either. I wasn't justifying anything, I was just happy that no one got hurt. Sorry for wishing that. (sarcasm)

Phil, if you think there is justice in our justice system 100 percent of the time, you are just as confused as you think I am. They have a kid on camera, with his face covered... What were you saying? If they knew just from the camera, then why does officer Santiago come into play? I'm not saying the kid did not do it, I'm just saying. I refuse to believe this paper 100% or the kid 100%. I'm waiting for a trial and whatever the results happen to be we have to live with it whether we believe that kid did it or not. AND a lot of people are killed or sent to jail or prison by our justice system in an unjust manner. We will not argue over this if you are planning to. That'd be a waste because we both know better.

America,

How do you know that no one got hurt? I mean, physically, that doesn't appear to be the case. But what about mentally? Imagine you're behind the counter and someone sticks a gun in your face and you see your life flash before your eyes. How long do you think you'll carry that around with you?

Once again, now, the quality of the video might be dubious, but there are ways to enhance it to get a more positive ID of the kid. Even so, he turned himself in. I don't care what his motivation was (this isn't method acting, Mr. DeMille). I don't care if he was put up to it or was otherwise a stooge. You what? I don't care if he doesn't have a father and his mother thought it was OK for a 16 year-old to be out at 11 PM on a school night (even though he apparently doesn't go to school anymore) BECAUSE, right and wrong, especially in THIS instance, is very basic. Rob someone? Wrong. Use a gun? Wrong. And, if he can't grasp that, there are places for such people.

And, no, there's not justice in our system 100% of the time. What I'd like to think is justice, using bleeding heart excuses, won't let the guilty party skate AFTER he turned himself in. As I've said, maybe cut the kid a bit of a break because he turned himself in? OK. But remember, there were apparently two people working for an honest living that night at DD who will likely carry that night around with them forever.

Phil,
You are mistaking our conversation for another conversation. I am not saying he was threatened into robbing I am saying what if someone else did it and he gets blamed? I'm not giving the robber an excuse, I am saying what if the that person accused is not the robber.

Your comparison does not work here, because I have had a gun pointed in my face before and I do pretty well. I actually don't worry about anything beyond love, money, and education.

You don't have to mention anything about cutting criminals a break to me, because that is not what I am proposing. Again, you are mixing up your conversations.

I am just saying, there is something we can do to help 16 year olds change their life. Not everyone who you claim is a piece shit forever is actually a piece of shit forever. Jail doesnt have that type of power. I don't know if you're religious, but if you are not even you're religion gives you that power to take change away from someone who wants better. AGAIN, since you don't seem to comprehend that I am not making a judgement on whether he goes to jail or not, but if he does, there can be more solutions to accompany his change rather than bars.

America,

People have been framed before. But, IF he turned himself in on his own free will and he didn't commit the robbery, then he's a stooge. Sorry, but even if he's not guilty, it's difficult to feel anything for him in the same way I have little use for anyone in any capacity who does someone else's bidding and allows himself to be used and crapped on--like my ex-boss.

Not knowing how many times or under what circumstances you've had a gun pointed in your face, but I'm impressed that you're not a basket case. You get one chance on this earth and exiting via bullet is not exactly what I had in mind. I don't know what's on the other side, if anything, and therefore I'm not prepared to head there yet and would like to enjoy this place as long as I can. Ergo, I have no sympathy or compassion for even a kid like the one who held up the Dunkin Donuts as the difference between robbing the joint and robbing it while leaving two bodies on the floor was likely only the matter of a few extra seconds of nervousness on either the side of the employees or the robber.

Maybe the kid will figure it out while he's in prison (and hopefully he goes there, at least for a while, because juvie and probation is way too kind).

The one part that bothers me is that FOR WHATEVER REASON (and I really don't care what it is, even that "respect of his so-called peers" thing), he couldn't make the very simple judgment that armed robbery was wrong. Sorry, but I have no sympathy.

Phil,
lol thanks, I guess I'm resilient to guns I guess, I wake up and bam gun in my face.

Anyway, Here's the difference between our thought processing right now from my perspective right now. It's obvious we both have opinions, I think it may have been this kid and so do you. However I also think it could POTENTIALLY not be this kid and I think in your mind it's a done deal. There might be something technical about the situation like Lee Smyth said, or you could be completely right. However, I don't know if you have immediate insight to the situation and then I'll just believe you on the rest of the situation (not completely, but more than smith). You may not even want tdiscalim your proof for it may ruin the safety of a fair trial like what is happening with my brother. You are right, you have a right to have an opinion, but you speak as if it is the truth because you jump the gun of the trial and speak of consequences that may not belong to the child, but to a robber. Camera caught thief at my dads job, but linked to the wrong person, luckily we found the right guy after the wrong guy ran away from the state. What if this guy went to jail for nothing? Damn man thats a camera though... we make mistakes, we have to learn to correct them, not run with them. Again, if it is the kid I agree with you since jail is all we have for NOW. Just like how we can't undo the actions of the robber, and counseling is the only thing we have for NOW for the employees.

Preach!

John,

It's not the justification of the action; there is none. It's the excuses for it. He's somebody's kid or grandkid. He can change. He can do this or that.

Thank you for analyzing me (where did you get your degree from anyway, doctor?). I'm angry? No. I tell it like it is. But, if I react out of anger, I'd rather be that than some bleeding heart constantly making excuses and apologizing for everything. And no one can say that what I've said is not well-thought out. But, since those thoughts don't agree with yours and they're harsh, I'm dismissed as merely being angry and on a collision course with something.

Thank you for preaching, Father John.

@Phil: So, I'm either a doctor or a priest. But you give your profession away with your response to Americ; you're a psychiatrist. how about delving a little more on mental health and tell us what the perp feels like since you've analyzed the victim of this robbery.

John,

This is an OPINION board. Yes, we're trying the kid in absentia and making other comments, but nothing that's said here will matter a whit at the kid's trial or when he cops a plea.

My thoughts disagree with yours, admittedly come across as harsh to a bleeding heart, and therefore I'm angry? Sorry you're offended. Actually, no I'm not, but you knew that already. You preached to me, having me speeding down on a one-way road to one of the circles of hell, for which I said "Thank you, Father." As an aside, I wonder if that's like Skee Ball; you go up the ramp and fall into a hole. Am I going to fall into the 50 point circle or miss everything and end up in gutter for no points? You called me angry because I vehemently disagreed with you and I called you "Doctor."

And now you have the temerity to question me? (Phony) physician, heal thyself.

Zizi,

I agree with you. Besides that, however, I'd like to apologize for starting a previous post to you in a mocking tone (as I indicated).

The one part that bothered me about that post for which I'm apologizing is when you said, "but the system should not fail him again."

Please, let's not lay it on the unseen "system" as there's basic right and wrong here which has nothing to do with the "system." You don't rob people and you don't do it at the point of a gun. Quite honestly, though it might be basic ideas imparted by a parent(s), to me, it's simple common sense. You don't want your stuff being taken from you and you don't want to be threatened or strong-armed in the process. You know, do unto others.

Phil,
You're are right here too, but how do we fix things like this without pretending to be God? I only see correcting this child, because behind an action like this is a lack of faith. I won't lie, I don't know how to solve this, but I think as people we can do a better job reacting to situations like this. Have at least a positive plan. We got so used to sending people to jail and prsion that we really don't put as much time in to study the mind or our systems flaws. (by system i dont mean just the justice system but school, employment, etc)

America,

I'm of the firm belief that some people just aren't "wired" correctly and there's not a damn thing you can do to straighten them out. Do I think it's this kid? I'd like to hope not as he's too young to be written off.

What I'd like to know is "why?" Why has a lot of questions--To where he got the idea that armed robbery was the proper thing to do, to what his family life is, to why he dropped out of school, to where he got the gun (not a "why" question) and probably a hundred other questions that I can't think of at the moment.

At the risk of being branded even angrier than I already am, I wouldn't chop his shooting hand off just yet. But, if he doesn't learn and if that were a form of punishment, I wouldn't hesitate.

And we must pay more attention to those people BEHIND the counter as we're far too worried about the kid with the gun.

Phil,
That is the reply I wanted from the beginning. That's the only reason why I am still talking to you. Yes, people need to focus just on the D & D workers. Yes they need help like all victims do. Again, I'll repeat myself-- I know they went through some trauma potentially especially considering the amount of running I saw. I however was referring to how no one was shot. I like knowing people can let other live even in the most messed up situations. I've lost a lot of people to murders, so if someone gets beaten or shook, I feel bad but I am sure glad they're alive. Not saying the robbers the best person in the world and deserves an overlook on his actions, but I appreciate that no bullets left that gun.

America,

Then you got the response you wanted. And it's what I've thought all along. And I wouldn't mind trading a few years in the pokey for this kid in return for his keeping the court docket unclogged by copping a plea (if he did it) and for real, honest answers for the "whys." But he can't get off with just juvie and probation.

And, not to play "Can You Top This," but I've had people murdered in my family as well--a terrorist bombing. Let's say that it isn't much fun for the living, either.

So, when some piece of shit (sorry, but that's the best I can do here) like this kid or others like him, decide he's going steal something from someone at the point of a gun and could be two seconds away from deciding he's also the executioner, I have no sympathy. I hope he straightens himself out. But he has to pay first. After all, the very large majority of people wouldn't even consider doing what this kid did because they know the difference between right and wrong, certainly as it applies to armed robbery.

Yes, I'm glad the DD workers are still alive and I hope they're not too messed up mentally. But, as far as I'm concerned, I'll only consider feeling any compassion for the kid after he pays, not before.

Phil,
Thank you, that's all I needed right there. That's how you see the situation and I agree, just your first comment was misleading since it was very emotional. Saying it like how you just did, makes it easier to see your perspective on the situation in a logical manner. I think everyone in the room kinda wanted to see you type it like that and it's completely understandable. I have a question, do you think the kid could pay for what he has done without going to prison or jail? Not asking if you know a way, but in the future do you think we could use his energy (in a legal humanitarian fashion) to get positive results somewhere else? (not the army either lol). It may not fix everything, but maybe he can even be the solution to someone elses problem? Maybe someone who feels as helpless as he did (if he did) when he robbed dunkin donuts for spare change money... (eh that sounds stupid as hell)

Also jail is the right path for now because, anyone robbing something knows, the consequences before they do it. So it's either starve or go to jail or prison. Personally I can starve today to see a better tomorrow rather than eat shit food for a few years behind bars.

Sorry you went through that, where and when was this terrorist bombing? Post an article if there is one (i've been a news addict ever since I started taking notice on how Teaneck and Englewood has been falling apart). I think there was a another murder yesterday and I don't know if they put it on the news yet)

It's rather simple, John.

If you agreed with me, you might go so far as to say that maybe I was a little "out there" and a bit vociferous, but that's about it.

That makes it obvious, to me, that we don't share viewpoints. Though you might be more of a centrist, rather than a bleeding heart, you're calling me "angry" and that I'm on a road to perdition.

And this is an OPINION board. So, if I want to try someone in absentia, guess what? Yep, you got it. And, in my OPINION, this kid is guilty and should be severely punished though, as I said to America, there are a lot of whys I'm interested in.

You're welcome for the laugh. I'd rather be the failed circus soothsayer than what it appears you're doing now--being the sword-swallower. :-)

Like the Energizer bunny :-) ...

At this point, I think it's too damned ingrained for this kid to do anything but at least some hard time. Then, what we need is enough people coming back from prison saying, "You don't want to end up here so straighten your asses out." But, evidently, that message isn't getting through. Instead, the object seems to be that you have to show how tough you are, be it by sticking up a DD or being the toughest SOB in the prison yard.

And, what's left behind? "Counseling" those who've had guns stuck in their faces because the jackass holding it wanted to prove he was a man to himself or his "friends" (some friends--those friends will lead you to an early death)? It's one thing if you go to war and bring stuff home. And, even then, that's not acceptable. But that's a different argument for a different day. It's another if you want to work for an honest living (and unless these employees had a piece of the action at that DD, it likely wasn't much of an honest living anyway) and the war comes to you. No amount of counseling will truly help, which I guess is why I advocate at least some hard time for this kid. He HURT those people, even if not physically. And making nice-nice to him from the get-go is just way too kind for my taste as this was very basic right and wrong which he SHOULD HAVE known.

Phil,
In short this gets complicated lol However, giving more money or taking less money hasn't quite done it. We need to work on something with more extensive talking, but you and I alone are not going to figure this out. IF we do we're going to age dramatically. lol

Phil,

I definitely agree with that last statement. :-)

In the end, it's a matter of changing a mindset. And that sort of thing can't get legislated, adjudicated nor can money be thrown at it. You can't teach fathers not to run away from their responsibilities nor can you teach women to stop spreading their legs for anyone who might validate their being as a woman (He wants to screw me; he must like me or think I'm beautiful. And don't tell me it doesn't happen.).

A major mistake happened probably after the war when guys like Robert Moses thought building vertically was the way to go. You put more people, most poor, in the same amount of space (because these weren't luxury apartment buildings) and the only thing that can come of there is trouble. So, maybe a solution is to bulldoze those damn things, have someone like Habitat participate in building houses (yes, some people will have to be moved) and make the neighborhoods look more residential instead of ghetto.

But that won't happen in our lifetimes.

Phil,
lol im sooo slow, I saw ur comment and thought someone else was talking to you. Then I looked at the name and saw you were replying to me XD
To fix this we all are most likely going to have to make a sacrifice and be content with the weight of the outcome versus what was given up. Heck might even find we didnt lose a thing but gained. Thats wishful thinking though XD

America,

Sorry about that. I should have addressed my post to you rather than me (or some imaginary Phil). So I can understand the confusion. :-)

As this country is generally lowest common denominator stuff (look at what's on TV and what passes for entertainment), I don't see the mindset changing anytime soon. We just seem to be on a downward spiral and I'm not sure what it'd take to pull us out.

There's also a wider separation of classes with the middle class slowly eroding. At least that's the way I see it. In the end, it'll largely be "haves" and "have nots." The haves won't give a damn about the have nots and the have nots won't have much to live for and won't care anyway. And, if there's money to be made in drugs, prostitution or armed robbery, hey, at least prison will give you three squares a day.

Maybe, too, since you need a license to drive a car or own a pet, maybe parents should be licensed, too.

Plenty of decent people have come out of poor neighborhoods. So, to an extent and though it may be more difficult now, it's not the neighborhood. There are just too many people in these poor neighborhoods without pride or a lick of common decency who make it difficult for the ones who actually care.

And I don't know how to change that short of forcibly moving the ones who want to dig themselves out and make themselves better and putting a gate around the remainder and chucking a nuke in.