As always, very well stated.

If the Occupy movement is demanding "a new moral agenda" they have a strange way of behaving. Disturbing local residents and businesses,urinating and defecating in public,taking drugs and molesting women is more of a breakdown of civilization than a serious movement, We need to call it what it is and not romanticize it. This type of "Utopian idealism" has always failed in the past.

Who is "they" Jack? Disturbing is what happens when one side understands more than another, when a way of thinking and behaving has got to change. Disturbing is what's also happening in Britain and many other locales around the world. Disturbing is a requisite to thinking, rethinking and changing the way things have been, Mr. Goode.

As for your comment about taking drugs and molesting women, these aren't the province of the current movement or any movement. These have been happening for eons. I would hardly put that on the Occupy Movement. And good lord, "urinating and defecating in public"? Let's then take India and France off the map, shall we? You've got about five streams of thought, none of them going anywhere, Mr. Goode. Read a bit more about what you're criticizing. Investigate. The signs are that a disturbance is happening because corporate and governmental immorality has taken hold and the public isn't taking it any more.

oooh.. Corporate and government immorality, makes you sound important.
What would you replace it with..self righteousness?
'"They" are the people involved in the movement. You seem angry. You may find this hard to believe,but your opinion is only your opinion, nothing more. Speaking of going nowhere, this "movement " that you are defending seems constipated.

The problem with the “Occupy Wall Street Movement” was the inability of the leaders to clearly express the goals of the “movement”. The protest’s initial intent was to awaken the public to the fact that a major problem exists, i.e. the disproportionate economic disparity between the Wall Street power brokers and the average citizen. It is difficult to refute that fact based on the premise that in spite of the mortgage fiasco, in spite of the failure of Lehman Brothers and others, the major firms continue to award the CEOs and key investment bankers huge salaries, stock options, and end-of-the-year bonuses. While the general population suffers through tough economic times, with rampant unemployment, exorbitant numbers of home foreclosures, and economic despair permeating the middle class household, these individuals are lining their pockets. Additionally, these power brokers continue to wield immense power with their abilities to finance the campaigns of presidential and congressional candidates, with the obvious hope of “future return on investment”!
At this protest a small group of irresponsible individuals stole the limelight with irresponsible behavior, even criminal acts. This does not negate the goals of the “Occupy Wall Street Movement’. It has spread across the country and hopefully will force our “representatives” to implement some very necessary changes in our national fiscal policy

Dear Mr. Pearl: Has the one percent clearly expressed its goals? The goal of the movement, as Ms. Jenkins and others point out is to awaken everyone to the injustices at hand, the pilfering of our pockets and futures by the rich, and our government. They are virtually synonymous at this point, this entity of power. Additionally, protestors you speak of have been hardly irresponsible, given the treatment they received first from authorities and given the fact that at every awakening of a movement there is naturally chaos and even violence. It's a birth of consciousness we are witnessing, and anarchy is in order, I would agree.

You begin by saying there are no goals, and end by saying there are. Apparently, you agree with most pundits of this happening that in fact goals are becoming apparent in the midst of the maelstrom.

Donna, I have visited the site and I have followed it on the news.both mainstream and underground. There are pictures of people doing just what i said ,1 person defecated on a police car, many have urinated in public and there have been arrests for disturbing the peace,public lewdness, assaults and sexual misconduct , drug use and dealing is rampant...by some of the protesters..you haven't heard or seen this?
Anyway you are perceptive in that some of my rants are tongue -in -cheek, but other times, I want to get a response.
I truly believe that the OWS movement will have no effect on government fiscal policy and certainly will not change the poor US economy . I do believe that if these people really want to make a difference, they would work within the system to change the elected representatives that are the problem.

Dear Mr. Goode, You may have visited Zuccotti Park, but clearly your eyes weren't open, and if they were, you were obviously intent only upon seeing what was wrong. You address the issue public urination as if it's the world's worse crime. First of all, which one of us (males) has not ever urinated out in the open? If that were the worst crime happening on Wall Street, rest assured the movement would have never launched in the first place...I'd put on glasses, if I were you, and stop watching FOX News, which, as anyone with any intelligence knows, is just quackery. Finally, what makes you think activists are not working within the system? It's bad enough there's so much rampant ignorance about government among U.S. citizens. This ignorance appears to be duplicating where OWS is concerned. Good Lord, get an education people!

JACK B GOODE what you stated is FACT JOHN READY resides on another planet, lets all got to his residence and urinate and defecate on his property, his car or where he works, he seems to think it is no big deal. Jack all John can do is attack thats the SOCIALIST WAY if a socialist disagrees they are to attack such as his remarks about you and FOX News, he has had to watch it himself as he stated its quackery. His statement about our government is ignorance and a COMMUNIST would only make a statement as he has. The activists are working within the system oh yes urinating and defecating on each other thats working within the system (LOL) Jack you forgot to mention the rape centers within the OWS at the Z.Park, oh yes READY using those drugs really unite the movement for the system another JOKE!!! GOODE i believe READY is smoking some real good stuff.

To John Ready, I'm only responsible for what I say, not what you understand.!
I guess John Ready is the most educated,ethical.truthful person on this blog(by his own estimation) . He suggests that people should get an education. and that we are all stupid for not seeing that the miscreants at Zuccotti Park are all part of the Master Plan.. rape and drug dealing after all are no big deal right?
P.S. to everyone else,don't invite JR to your home, he may pee on the carpet.

Again, Mr. Goode, you miss the point entirely if your focus is on the peeing and drug dealing. Tell me, when did the issues of rape and drug dealing became such issues of concern for you? Have I missed something? When did you first start your fight against such abuses? -- Upon the launching of OWS? What a surprise.

Your comments are base and inappropriate. It's people like you and Mr. Thoungduc who give a bad rap to those who comment on the Internet.

Get off your high horse Mr. Ready, who appointed you judge of what is appropriate?Your self righteousness and lack of a sense of humor are why you can't be taken seriously. You are defending a movement that has no direction, no measurable goal and thus far has failed to do anything but aggravate people . I understand civil disobedience, but the nature of the crimes being committed by the "occupiers" are more like a drunken outdoor party than people with a noble cause.

Redistributing income and wealth via government fiat isn't moral, it is theft.

I now understand why the patch is failing to attract readers.

Gosh, I am so sorry that discussion about these issues has devolved into such hostility. I really I am. I had hoped to inspire discussion, not meanness. Most certainly, I assumed people could discuss their differences with dignity and respect for one another.

Please keep talking Arya. There are those who would hijack your words by attempting to steer it off topic. Such is not discussion. It is tactic. What you say spurs this reaction because it threatens by way of its own power of being true. That is why these people are behaving this way. Maintain your civic dialogue and these ploys will have no real power.

@ B@B can you point to such evidence that you speak of??? and do you mean to say that only people with progressive liberal ideas and points of view are reality based??? I'm sorry I disagree with you in as much as many of my social ideas have been titled left, the same extremism which exist on the right, also exist on the extreme left...in an earlier thread, I asked for an assessmant of one of the photo on this blog which depicts a young man holding a sign "Tax the rich" and he is a member of the movement OWS...what does the meaning of the sign represent??? Can you explain to me with your worldview how this message is going to bring about change??? Can you explain to me how is this young mans voice going to make this system collasped by Washington policies better for all of us??? Recently our former Governor J Corzine was an advocate for many of the progressive ideas many on the left strived for, after he left public office and return as a CEO of a major Wall St Firm, he successfully collasped the firm loss billions of dollars. Today it has come to light that he recieved preferential treatment from the SEC on licensing and continuing education, they re-established Mr Corzines securities licensed without any requirements, because of his Washington Connections, had they not perhaps today MF Global would still be a growing company, and clients money would not be missing my point is where is the outcry from the left??? Not one major network carried this story. OWS??? why not OPA?

OPA all the way Mario, why even continue to blog with the HAVE NOTS that want all from the persons they believe HAVE IT ALL. They are all sitting on their asses waiting for their Welfare checks/credit cards to be delivered to them and they still demand more. All we hear is they owe it to us those that are Rich$$$, they owe no one anything period. Get off your Bowl and get a job and stop crying, its getting to be old story over and over again-WAH-WAH-WAH

@THIUNGDUC, I really want someone to acknowledge the political system is broken...I want them to honestly say,,,your re right! Nancy Peloisi,is as much a fat cat as is Jamie Diamon...Jon Corzine is as much a crook as was Bernie Madof, yes Former Governor Mark Sanford is as much a liar and cheater as was and still is John Edwards, democrats and republican alike have destroyed the American Dream, not Corporate America...

Mario there is no cross-arguement in what you have just stated in your blog, I acknowledge the system is broken but i totally disagree with the OWS Movement, and how they want change in this country. They are all over the planet, I saw signs to legalize Pot, other to legalize prostitution, take from the rich give to the poor, free everything to me thats SOCIALISM, and one thing we don't need is to have a class warfare war, as Obama has stated so many times when he was running for President i will be a Uniter not a Divider and where is he on this issue, he made a few statements that backed this OWS movement and then has fund raisers taking millions in donations for his re-election from these Corporate firms we bailed out with our tax dollars and banks which we bailed out as well. As for Corzine as he stated "I don't know where the money went" 11/2 BILLION dollars of the investors monies and we will probably bail him out and he will not serve one day in jail, where are the OWS supporters on this???? They should be at 1600 Pennsylvania ave not in NY, the problem is with the President,Congress and Senate all politicians lining their pockets with gold and leaving us with debt to our grandchildren for years to come and possibly the fall of the USA another Greece/Spain/Japan. Corporate America only does what it is allowed to do by our government period, do we expect every corporation to fail then maybe the OWS will be satisfied, maybe thats their goal the George Soros way?????

Follow the money.

I posted this here last night. Not sure why it was deleted.

http://www.earth.columbia.edu/videos/watch/349
http://www.earth.columbia.edu/videos/watch/350

@Ken F OK Follow the money...so if money is given to legislators, and we know it is, through lobbyist, Are the lobbyist wrong, or are the politicians wrong who allow themselves to pass legislature which benefits the interest of the lobbyist??? Were legislators elected to serve the interest of lobbyist or the interest of its people??? I have a great idea,,,stop passing legislature which exempts legislators for their own laws, pass a bill which forces legislators to contribute to their own benefits, pass a bill which limits the term a legislators serves in office...are these laws so unrealistic??? do you know how much money legislators indirectly benefit from through positions their spouse serve on Board of Directors??? The system is comprised of a group of elitist, who pretend to dedciate themselves to serve its people. The serve themselves, GREED is an understatement.

Really good post.

As is the usual for Dan Rather he conducted a great interview with economist and author Jeffery Sachs. This 2 part video series about our economy speaks in a language that everyone can understands. The one exception to this is the "Glass Steagall Act". Most Americans may of heard about this "act" in school, or, just never heard of it. For a further understanding of this act go to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass%E2%80%93Steagall_Act

Arya, I want to congratulate you on writing an article that began all of this discussion. Its not an easy thing to do! You hit a nerve and a lot has been shared, some forcefully and some sarcastically, but a lot of great interaction! Great idea! Keep it up!

your 10 minutes are up back to your holes

Mario, I fall somewhere in the middle and try to keep an open mind no matter which direction the discussion goes. I do my best to be respectful to others as I wish they would be towards me. There are many in here who have earned my respect merely by the way they conduct themselves. You are firmly planted in that group. I look forward to continued discussion on this topic as I have learned much since it began. Peace and happiness to all in the coming year.

Brennan are you saying rape is okay if its only a few???? How would you have felt if it were you or someone from your family, you state you were there I was also did you film the Rape Center, where those that were raped were induced into not reporting it to the NYC Police (I wonder Why)??? Are we not talking about crimes that have and will continue to happen or should we look in the opposite direction? A few bad apples can destroy a good movement especially the rest that are attempting to do good, is that a true statement? Happy New to you and all that have blogged on this thread (RATHER INTERESTING) and i found it to be very informative.

Thoungduc... If you were there at the "rape center" where was it? And to whom did you have a conversation with were you were told, "those that were raped were induced into not reporting it to the NYC Police (I wonder Why)??? Did you bother to ask why? How were these rape victims "induced" into not reporting? Unless, you have verifiable facts your statements don't make sense. Please answer the above questions.

Thounduc, no disrespect, but, really

My hats off to you Ridgewood Mom. Exactly.....We are all human, made up of flesh, bones, blood and even all kinds of "hair do's". Most of the blog responses have certainly been more elevated than others that fixate on the "seriously lacking" toilet habits of occupiers, and worse. Furthermore, that a couple of individuals keep drilling us on how the vast majority of OWS people are rapists, have been raped, have been forced to keep quiet about being raped, do drugs etcetera is not only ludicrous but not true. And I am also happy to see this is not the sentiment of the majority here on this blog.

Still waiting for Thounduc to answer my questions. Either way, his silence, should he determine not to answer, will speak reams. Of course I hope he does respond.

It isn't about redistribution of wealth, it is about allowing the 99% to participate in the American Dream. Recent studies show that one in two Americans live in or close to the poverty level. We rank third in the world in income disparity between the rich and the poor. To fuss about closing tax loop holes and slight increases in taxes on those making over 1 million dollars while trying to reduce or take away completely minimum wage guidelines is really a form of slave labor. If you have to work over 80 hours a week at minimum wage to barely reach the poverty level, there is something seriously wrong with our policies. Under Dwight Eisenhower, taxes on the wealthy approached 92%. Clearly too high. In the Kennedy years taxes on the wealthy were reduced. The Bush administration funded 2 wars without a tax hike. This was never done before in our history not to mention tax cuts introduced in the same time period which basically put an end to job creation during those years. Not everyone occupying Wall Street understands the causes for their frustration, they just know that somehow present government favors the rich at the expense of the not so rich.

Linda I think you are right in your thinking the problem is small tax increases here or there wont help, our policies currently are prohibitve where in companies or people with money see very little reward to take risk, they wont expand their business or create new one's and sadly that will not change in 2012. There are trillions of dollars looking for investment opputunities and ideas , corporate balance sheets are as healthy as they have ever been but until this country at every level starts to put its fiscal house in order that money is staying put, and unemployement is going to stay high, the crazy and sad thing is it wouldnt take much policy change to get our economy roaring again.but this system of borrowing .40 of every dollar we spend is unsustainable and higher taxes wont ever solve that.

Linda I think you are right in your thinking the problem is small tax increases here or there wont help, our policies currently are prohibitve where in companies or people with money see very little reward to take risk, they wont expand their business or create new one's and sadly that will not change in 2012. There are trillions of dollars looking for investment opputunities and ideas , corporate balance sheets are as healthy as they have ever been but until this country at every level starts to put its fiscal house in order that money is staying put, and unemployement is going to stay high, the crazy and sad thing is it wouldnt take much policy change to get our economy roaring again.but this system of borrowing .40 of every dollar we spend is unsustainable and higher taxes wont ever solve that.

As far as tax increase or tax cuts, it is only going to result in creating a bigger hole.The problem is in-effiencies which exist in the tax code and lobbyist which prevent legislators in changing those in-efficiencies. We all know the tax code is old out dated and un fair, why don they fix it?Why is it 30 million Americans have no health insurance and the Governments solutions is to unravel the entire system and rebuild a new system for the entire 300 million Americans at the same time exclude themselves? there is your answer, opportunist running the system and because its about money,and controlling it...I am beginning to believe many good people are very naive. Recently the Government passed a stimulus 870 billion dollars, they gave a portion to the banks to bail them out. Because of the lack of liquidity, the banks recieved the money and since have made fewer loans than ever. 870 BILLION???? they could have given each AMERICAN CITIZEN 1 million and still have had 865 billion left. It is disgusting how they spend money and the FEDERAL Reserve is a printing press, like a drug dealer providing the cash to satisfy their desire to spend. My problem is spend it wisely, spend it on provding shelters for our homeless, not schools in IRAQ to be blown up next week, feed our hungry, not pay farmers not to grow agricultural goods, rebuild our infratsrutcure, not increase the military budget to build more weapons to destroy and threaten other nations, The Government is broken.

Agreed on all points , except a billion, or a trillion, doesn't go so far :
(from stats.com)
One billion is a thousand millions.
One billion is a 1 with nine zeros after it, denoted by 1,000,000,000.
One billion seconds is about 31 and a half years.
One billion pennies stacked on top of each other would make a tower almost 870 miles high.
If you earn $45,000 a year, it would take 22,000 years to amass a fortune of one billion dollars.
One billion ants would weight over 3 tons - a little less than the weight of an elephant.
One billion dollars divided equally among the U.S. population would mean that everyone in the United States would receive about $3.33.
Trillions

After this is a trillion:

One trillion is a thousand billions, or equivalently a million millions.
It is a 1 with twelve zeros after it, denoted by 1,000,000,000,000.
One trillion seconds is over 31 thousand years.
One trillion pennies stacked on top of each other would make a tower about 870,000 miles high - the same distance obtained by going to the moon, back to earth, then to the moon again.
One trillion ants would weigh over 3000 tons.
One trillion dollars divided evenly among the U.S. population would mean that everyone in the United States would receive a little over $3000.
even if we divided a trillion among every TAXPAYING citizen, it would amount to approx. $7000.00 per. But I certainly would be glad to get it- even though the leeches would tax us on it

More number fun:
1. The wealthiest 400 Americans have as much money as the less wealthy half of the entire population combined.
2. The wealth of six members of the Walton family equals that if the bottom 30% of all Americans combined.
Source = http://blogs.berkeley.edu/2011/12/05/the-few-the-proud-the-very-rich/
-----------
Here is Forbes list of America's 400 wealthiest people:
http://www.forbes.com/forbes-400/#p_1_s_arank_All%20industries_All%20states_All%20categories_

All of them are billionaires.
A billion is a thousand millions.
That is a 1 with nine zeros after it, denoted by 1,000,000,000.
etc.

Of course, these people work a lot harder then everyone else. All of the other people who get up and go to work every day just aren't working hard enough. They are lazy. Everyone else only needs to start behaving like these harder working people and they will have as much as them. It is just that simple. If you have a problem with it you are a SOCIALIST and like to rape people. ROFL

While most Americans are getting poorer, the very rich are getting much richer.

CEOs:
http://www.forbes.com/lists/2011/12/ceo-pay-20-year-historical-chart.html

Bank Executives:
http://money.cnn.com/news/specials/storysupplement/ceopay/

And how much is being "earned" from capital investments?

@Ridgewood MOM...."I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around [the banks] will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs."
Thomas Jefferson, (Attributed)
3rd president of US (1743 - 1826)
Class warfare will only divide us, as we fall divided the politician will only tighten their grip on our liberties...READ " ART OF WAR" Sunzi

"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."
- Thomas Jefferson
Kinda says it all

Paul Krugman:

"We are just three years after the greatest banking crisis since the 1930s. I think it was brought on by excesses on the part of the financial industry and the financial industry was bailed out at the public’s expense and risk and yet we’re still in an economic crisis. And somehow the discussion of who are these guys, why are we supporting them, why haven’t they paid more for this, what are the reforms that’s going to stop this from happening again, all that disappeared from the debate.

We have been arguing about who’s going to cut Social Security and what about that budget deficit? And we lost the whole thread of the core issue in our society right now. And these protesters, who are a mix of all sorts of people, suddenly brought that back into the center of our national debate. And that’s an enormously positive contribution."

Here: http://cnn.com/video/?/video/us/2011/10/14/gps-krugman-occupy-wall-street.cnn

Joseph Stiglitz on Occupy Wall Street:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrW0ypOBngU

I'm very confused that our President Obama was not included in this discussion as class warfare is a prevalent hope and change for the man at the top. I believe that the lack of leadership is a dominant problem. President Obama appears to be in the pockets of Wall Street while applauding those that feel so cheated.
It is hard for me to condone the Occupied Wall street. I work very hard as a NYC teacher. When our building was, again, filling our halls with possible asbestos, our Union leader, Milgrew, hung out at the rallies, while our young children's health and staff was burdened with problems of disease, overcrowded classrooms, limited materials, and fear of cancer in a 100 year old building. Yet the Union opened their beautiful building to the occupiers and we still have no contract. Union leaders are in this for political gain and this movement was not spontaneous but herded and led by political interests. I got a firsthand look at the site and saw defecation, drugs, rock and roll and people that want to belong. I thought it was so grand that our Union leader was all over the news on this matter yet no where to be reached for our huge breaking New York City school system. Goods were provided for the occupiers, yet asbestos was ignore. Leadership is diminishing. i understand that freedom of speech is great...but the stench and lack of a message demonstrates flocks and herds of people brought together for political gain, momentum going,.. a clear voice is missing.

Just excellent Carol this is what most on this blog have been attempting to articulate, a movement with a thousand directions and directors and not one real meaning. Happy New Year to you

Ridgewood mom, you have been backing this movement in this thread, i have a suggestion invite them into your home too live, they need a place to sleep, a bathroom/toilet, food and your paycheck to spend your hard earned money since they don't have any and demand to share your wealth with them that have nothing so they can sit on their asses and complain and do nothing. - HAPPY NEW YEAR

T. MAYER excellent blog!!!!

“The lessons of history, confirmed by the evidence immediately before me, show conclusively that continued dependence upon relief induces a spiritual and moral disintegration fundamentally destructive to the national fibre. To dole out relief in this way is to administer a narcotic, a subtle destroyer of the human spirit.” Had to be a mean-spirited Tea Party conservative, right? Wrong. President Franklin Roosevelt included these words in his 1935 State of the Union Address.

Twenty-nine years later, the American welfare state was still relatively small, consuming only 1.2 percent of U.S. gross domestic product (GDP). The American family was also still intact, with 93 percent of children born into stable families. But then, in 1965, President Lyndon B. Johnson’s War on Poverty happened. Forty-five years and $16 trillion later, thanks to big government, poverty is winning. Thanks to over $900 billion a year (over 5 percent of GDP) of spending on over 70 means-tested welfare programs spread over 13 government agencies, more than 40 million Americans currently receive food stamps, poverty is higher today than it was in the 1970s, and 40 percent of all children are born outside of marriage.
We can say that it is and has been a failed policy- can anyone say that 16 trillion dollars was well spent? more money stolen from the people in the form of taxes to throw away on yet more gov't. programs would be more of the same failure- wouldn't that money have been better off in the pockets of those earned it? actually , it doesn't matter if it would be better or not- it belongs to the people tha worked for it, and to their families-period